{"id":362,"date":"2025-06-11T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2025-06-11T00:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/?p=362"},"modified":"2025-07-10T13:16:01","modified_gmt":"2025-07-10T13:16:01","slug":"gtm-150-80-of-exec-roles-arent-posted-heres-how-to-land-them-anyway-with-andy-mowat","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/2025\/06\/11\/gtm-150-80-of-exec-roles-arent-posted-heres-how-to-land-them-anyway-with-andy-mowat\/","title":{"rendered":"GTM 150: 80% of Exec Roles Aren\u2019t Posted, Here\u2019s How to Land Them Anyway with Andy Mowat"},"content":{"rendered":"<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<\/div>\n<\/figure>\n<p>The GTM Podcast is available on any major directory, including:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/in\/podcast\/the-gtm-podcast\/id1369291464\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Apple Podcasts<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/2SA1dgQ2Yc5t4V5GcBLnD2?si=b9dcb3e53b2d4ad2&amp;nd=1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Spotify<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLGXnz4Tyz3-SfJ5DPByHtUOQOFB3yJ6zZ&amp;si=Yj3qgzFty48-h9uI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/amowat\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Andy Mowat<\/a> is the Co-Founder of Whispered, and is responsible for building incredible RevOps and GTM systems at unicorns like Upwork, Box, and Culture Amp. With over two decades of experience leading marketing ops, sales ops, and go-to-market infrastructure, Andy is a true pioneer of modern RevOps. Today, he\u2019s building tools to help tech executives collaborate on company insights, search strategies, introductions, and the deepest database of unposted GTM roles anywhere.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h2>Discussed in this Episode:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>Why 80\u201398% of VP and C-level roles are never posted\u2014and how to access them.<\/li>\n<li>The importance of clarity: how GTM operators should articulate their focus to stand out.<\/li>\n<li>How venture networks and backchanneling drive most executive hiring decisions.<\/li>\n<li>The rise (and limits) of fractional work as a bridge between full-time roles.<\/li>\n<li>What AI agents are doing behind the scenes at Whispered to match execs to roles.<\/li>\n<li>Why company stage, growth rate, and CEO quality are critical in picking your next role.<\/li>\n<li>What GTM functions (e.g. RevOps, Demand Gen) are most in-demand right now.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><em>If you missed GTM 149, check it out here: <\/em><\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/gtm-149-inside-meta-10b-sales-playbook-with-rick-kelley\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>How Meta Scaled Their Global Sales Team with Rick Kelley<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<h2>Highlights:<\/h2>\n<p>04:30 Why most executive roles are never posted<\/p>\n<p>07:00 How Whispered operates as a curated talent network<\/p>\n<p>13:30 Why GTM execs struggle to articulate their focus\u2014and how to fix it<\/p>\n<p>16:45 The right way to build a target company list<\/p>\n<p>21:00 Engaging your network and VC talent teams the right way<\/p>\n<p>28:00 What AI is (and isn\u2019t) changing about hiring and team structure<\/p>\n<p>34:00 How to evaluate growth-stage companies and pick winners<\/p>\n<p>36:30 Head of vs. VP vs. CRO: The real meaning of title across company sizes<\/p>\n<p>41:00 Most common mistakes execs make in their job search<\/p>\n<p>44:30 Using customer advocacy and growth loops to scale Whispered<\/p>\n<p>46:00 Is email dead? Why it\u2019s still critical to GTM and talent outreach<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p><strong>Guest Speaker Links (Andy Mowat):<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>LinkedIn: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/amowat\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/amowat\/<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Whispered: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Resources Mentioned:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/post\/nopost\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Reasons Companies Don\u2019t Post Roles<\/a>\u201d\n<p>\u2192 Covers why executive roles often remain unlisted\u2014e.g., roles are in flux, confidential transitions, or posted only for formality.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/post\/fractional\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Pros and Cons of Fractional<\/a>\u201d (co-created with Neil Weitzman)\n<p>\u2192 Breaks down when fractional roles work, when they don\u2019t, and how operators can think about fractional work in a tough hiring market.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/whispered.com\/career-clarity\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Focus Statement Template<\/a>\u201d\n<p>\u2192 A Google Doc-style worksheet to help executives define their ideal role, company stage, function, sector, and target company list.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/post\/talent-partners\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">How to Work with VC Talent Teams<\/a>\u201d\n<p>\u2192 A tactical guide on how to engage with venture capital talent teams effectively (e.g., what to ask, how to prepare, what not to do).<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/post\/ambiguous-roles\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ambiguous Roles Will Derail Your Career<\/a>\u201d\n<p>\u2192 Discusses why roles like COO, Chief of Staff, BizOps, and Operating Partner can be risky or hard to grow from without a clear trajectory.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/post\/niche\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Value of Niching Down<\/a>\u201d\n<p>\u2192 Encourages candidates to specialize and be specific to stand out and receive better, faster support from networks and recruiters.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/post\/polishing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Polishing Candidates<\/a>\u201d\n<p>\u2192 A framework for turning solid but overlooked operators into highly referencable, top-tier candidates.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.whispered.com\/post\/onevtwo\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Should You Be the #1 or #2 in a Company?<\/a>\u201d\n<p>\u2192 Helps executives decide whether to pursue a head-of role at a smaller company or take a deputy role at a larger one with brand equity.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Host Speaker Links (Sophie Buonassisi):<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>LinkedIn: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/sophiebuonassisi\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/sophiebuonassisi\/<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Newsletter: <a href=\"https:\/\/substack.com\/@sophiebuonassisi\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">https:\/\/substack.com\/@sophiebuonassisi<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Where to find GTMnow (GTMfund\u2019s media brand):<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li data-list-indent=\"1\" data-list-type=\"bulleted\">\n<p>Website: <u><a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/\">https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/<\/a><\/u><\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li data-list-indent=\"1\" data-list-type=\"bulleted\">\n<p>LinkedIn: <u><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/gtmnow\/\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/gtmnow\/<\/a><\/u><\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li data-list-indent=\"1\" data-list-type=\"bulleted\">\n<p>Twitter\/X: <u><a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/GTMnow_\">https:\/\/x.com\/GTMnow_<\/a><\/u><\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li data-list-indent=\"1\" data-list-type=\"bulleted\">\n<p>YouTube: <u><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@GTM_now\"> \/@gtm_now <\/a><\/u><\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li data-list-indent=\"1\" data-list-type=\"bulleted\">\n<p>The GTM Podcast (on all major directories): <u><a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/tag\/podcast\/\">https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/tag\/podcast\/<\/a><\/u><\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<h3>Sponsor: Qualified<\/h3>\n<p>Qualified is the Agentic Marketing Platform with the world\u2019s leading SDR agent, Piper the AI SDR. Marketing teams trust Piper to autonomously drive inbound pipeline at scale, delivering real-time engagement and conversion. Trusted by top brands like Asana, Box, Brex, Clari, GE Healthcare, and more, Qualified is redefining how companies generate pipeline in the age of AI.<\/p>\n<p>Learn more at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.qualified.com\/plus\/category\/ai-sdr-summit?utm_source=gtmfund\">https:\/\/www.qualified.com\/plus\/category\/ai-sdr-summit?utm_source=gtmfund<\/a><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p><strong>The GTM Podcast<\/strong><br \/>The GTM Podcast is a weekly podcast featuring interviews with the top 1% GTM executives, VCs, and founders. Conversations reveal the unshared details behind how they have grown companies, and the go-to-market strategies responsible for shaping that growth.<\/p>\n<p>Visit<a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/\"> gtmnow.com<\/a> for more episodes and other interesting content.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h2>GTM 150 Episode Transcript<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong>You could be the best operator in the world, but if you pick the wrong company, you\u2019re kind of screwed.<\/p>\n<p>I always advise people like, if you have two bad swings in a row, you\u2019re gonna struggle.<\/p>\n<p>At the director level, you\u2019re probably talking 30 to 40% of roles are unposted. I\u2019m talking in the venture backed, investor backed ecosystem. at the VP level, you\u2019re probably talking 80% plus, are unposted roles and at the C level, you\u2019re talking about 98% of those roles are unposted,<\/p>\n<p>If a company\u2019s hiring for A CMO at seed, they don\u2019t know what A CMO is and they shouldn\u2019t be hiring for that.<\/p>\n<p>AI is fundamentally changing everything, but I deeply believe we\u2019re in the flashlight and fart app era still of ai, we are at the very beginning of the changes that are gonna happen with AI.<\/p>\n<p>Oh crap, I\u2019m out of a job. Let me apply to everything. I think these people are going to get burned out,\u00a0if everything\u2019s possible, you\u2019re not gonna get anything.<\/p>\n<p>Your next role won\u2019t be posted. It\u2019ll be whispered.<\/p>\n<p>Behind the scenes. It was small group of people that were doing I wanna know how this insane growth actually\u00a0happened.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> A quick pause from the episode because AI SDR agents are rewriting the pipeline playbook. The AI SDR Summit put on by qualified just took place if you missed it or wanna go back 3D parts. The summit is now available on demand. It explored how leaders from companies like G two, Gartner, six Sense Salesforce, and so many more.<\/p>\n<p>Are scaling their pipeline generation with autonomous AI agents. You\u2019ll learn everything you need to know from ai. SDR. Use cases for inbound use cases for outbound, the landscape, putting a price on digital labor and exactly how you can use AI SDR agents to transform your pipeline generation. No fluff.<\/p>\n<p>Just real strategies, candid conversations, and proven results. Learn all about AI sdrs@qualified.com slash GTMnow, [00:02:00] which will also be in the show notes. That\u2019s qualified, Q-U-A-L-I-F-I-E d.com\/gt MNOW. Now back to the episode.<\/p>\n<p>This episode explores how go-to-market leaders can navigate today\u2019s hiring market and land their next role in a tough market. Andy Mowat, a seasoned operator, multi-time founder. It breaks down what go-to-market executives need to know to stand out, get hired, and avoid common pitfalls. He shares tactical advice for senior operators reentering the job market, how to build with VCs and recruiters, and what founders are really looking for when hiring go-to-market leaders.<\/p>\n<p>Andy is the co-founder of Whispered, a talent network that helps operators land roles before they\u2019re even posted. Previously, he served as VP of Revenue Operations at Carta, scaled both Upwork and Culture Amp from 10 million to over a hundred million in ARR Co-founded the company called Gated, just to name a few.<\/p>\n<p>Andy, welcome to the podcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Thank [00:03:00] you. That was the most amazing intro I\u2019ve ever seen. I loved it. We\u2019ve known each other for a while and it\u2019s, it\u2019s neat to see all the conversations have led to this, so I\u2019m excited for it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> I know it\u2019s great to have you here, my friend, and I\u2019m super curious, you know, you as an operator and now running a talent network, you\u2019ve got a front row seat. What\u2019s changed for Go-To-Market executives trying to land their next role today compared to a few years ago?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I think two things. One is it\u2019s tighter market, two is ai. Um, and I\u2019m happy to kind of go deeper on either one of those. I I, I saw a staff the other day that said, uh, from a VC talent team shared with us, they\u2019re like, it\u2019s 60 to 75% less roles in our portfolio than there were, I. In 2021, right? Like that is telling, um, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>And then AI is, is a really interestingly changing the market. I\u2019m spending a lot of time thinking about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Interesting. Okay. And I think those are both. Both areas we could go down. Maybe let\u2019s start from the top in terms of the talent network and what you\u2019re seeing from a reduction.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I think companies have gone through, [00:04:00] probably companies are thinking through, like growth is slowed, there\u2019s less exits, means funding\u2019s slower. And so all of those have combined to just mean they\u2019re being a lot more thoughtful about the roles they hire. Uh, they also have or dealing with the AI trends, right, of will this be less people over time?<\/p>\n<p>How do we drive efficiency? So I think that is all. Forming how companies hire. Uh, and so I find there\u2019re being a lot more thoughtful with senior level roles that they put out. And uh, we collaborate with a lot of them on those.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Yeah, give a little context there if you don\u2019t mind, because you know people are, you mentioned collaboration, searching in different ways than they were in the past. What does that look like behind the scenes? Means, what are you doing at whispered here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Yeah, I mean, whispered is the philosophy we have with whispered is your next role won\u2019t be posted. It\u2019ll be whispered, I think at the senior levels. It is the case. I think it\u2019s always been the case to some degree, but it\u2019s become even more lately, right? Like I, I have had a, a posted role at, uh, a [00:05:00] company I know the hiring manager at, and I pinged him.<\/p>\n<p>I said, Hey, I got two awesome people for a rev ops role. And he said, Hey, that\u2019s cool, but. I\u2019ve got 33 other backdoor channels that have said the same thing. Can you just forward it to my recruiting? Can you just have \u2019em hire and then I\u2019ll flag it for the recruiting team. And I appreciate that. And I\u2019ve done the same thing too.<\/p>\n<p>And so I think any company that people would wanna work for. that is posting a role, call it a VP plus level role is gonna get swamped. you\u2019re gonna see like two to 5,000 candidates. So that\u2019s that part. And then I think the other phenomenon I\u2019ve seen is, I remember I was hiring for something a while, like two, three years ago, and I posted and I got, you know, a couple hundred applications, most of which were terrible.<\/p>\n<p>But you could easily see, you could read the cover letters and you could see which one\u2019s the right ones. And those took like. Two or three weeks to filter in today. If you post a rule, you\u2019re gonna get 2000 great applications and they\u2019re all gonna be perfectly written, perfectly customized. You\u2019re gonna be like, wow.<\/p>\n<p>They understand my requirements perfectly. And so how do you filter through all that? It\u2019s really, really hard. [00:06:00] And so increasingly, I think companies are shifting to not posting roles. Historically, they would always not post rules if they\u2019re like. Confidential in seat. things are changing. They\u2019re still figuring things out.<\/p>\n<p>We have a whole fun article on the nine reasons that companies don\u2019t post roles. Um, and so we spent a lot of time studying on that side, but I think that increasingly, just, especially with the tight market, they won\u2019t. And so I estimate that at the director level, you\u2019re probably talking 30 to 40% of roles are unposted. Uh, at the, and again, I\u2019m talking in the venture backed, uh, investor backed ecosystem. at the VP level, you\u2019re probably talking 80% plus, are unposted roles and at the C level, you\u2019re talking about 98% of those roles are unposted, and so whispered is built to help executives navigate that, right? It\u2019s really scary when you pop your head up.<\/p>\n<p>Roles aren\u2019t posted, your network is stale. You may not know how to like work the venture ecosystem and leverage all of those really cool types of things. And so we\u2019ve [00:07:00] built, I love how you described it as a talent network. I haven\u2019t used that yet, but we\u2019ve kind of described whispered as a platform to help executives collaborate on, on posted roles, obviously, but also insights on companies.<\/p>\n<p>So like, which companies am I interviewing with that are breaking out, or I\u2019ve learned something interesting and people are whispering that to us. And then also introductions and connections, right? So my network can only take me so far, but everyone\u2019s network can take me a lot further. And then finally, just the support and advice We had somebody the other day said.<\/p>\n<p>Hey, I met the CEO of this company. We had a great conversation. Then this firm was brought in. I\u2019m on the exempt list, so I feel like the recruiter might be ghosting me a little bit. How do I handle that? And so like a lot of executives in whispered were having that conversation. And um, I guess the final thing I would say is GTMfund has inspired me a lot.<\/p>\n<p>GTMfund is this high-end network. Of 200 plus people. It\u2019s a high bar to get in, but when you get in, these people are givers, they\u2019re helpers, they\u2019re collaborators, and there\u2019s built friendships for life. And I think we\u2019re doing a very similar thing. Whispered is not fully transactional, just [00:08:00] we are not a, everyone\u2019s like your job board, sell me jobs.<\/p>\n<p>If somebody wants to just a list of jobs, they can\u2019t get it from us. You\u2019re either in or you\u2019re not. And when you\u2019re in, you\u2019re in and you pay while you\u2019re looking. But when you\u2019re an alumni, you don\u2019t pay. Uh, and you can still stay involved in the network. You can continue to help. You may get calls from us saying, Hey, can you help this executive as well too?<\/p>\n<p>And so that\u2019s what we\u2019re building.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> is incredible. And first, thank you for the kind words. Super appreciate it. And we\u2019re, I mean, really fortunate to have you be part of that. So thank you for everything you do. And I know we\u2019ve talked about it at Measure because I\u2019ve used whispered for our portfolio companies to. Super helpful and just overall, we see it from our side too.<\/p>\n<p>You know, a lot of our portfolio companies, what we see is they\u2019re not posting executive roles anymore online, or if they are, it\u2019s to do the due diligence of a traditional process. But what\u2019s really happening behind the scenes is they\u2019re pinging their investors, they\u2019re pinging their network. And finding who the best talent is.<\/p>\n<p>And it kind of goes back to that [00:09:00] saying of the best work is the work in front of you right now. The best growth lever is the work in front of you right now. Just by doing the work incredibly well opens up opportunities in future.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Yeah, very true. Yeah, we made a connection for a GTM fund company yesterday, so it\u2019s fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Appreciate you, appreciate you you speak with a lot of Go-To-Market leaders. What are you hearing from people directly around their personal searches right now? Obviously it\u2019s a very hard market.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I think a lot of people wanna take the time to do it right versus hop right back into the next company. Uh, and so I see a lot of people, I. That are either in roles today and I generally advise people stay in a role, or they\u2019ve recently left, but they\u2019re not like feeling this<\/p>\n<p>panic or they feel the panic. We all feel it, but they\u2019re not like rushing to take the first thing that hits them. \u2019cause I think some people have made mistakes, , particularly over the thrash of like 20 20, 20 21, 20 22. It\u2019s like you look at a lot of people who are really talented and they\u2019ve [00:10:00] had short stints.<\/p>\n<p>and then I also think that, you know, this founder mode, CEO thing is, is out there, right? And it\u2019s like people are trying to pick the right CEOs. The right companies where like it\u2019s gonna be a good run. I always advise people like, if you have two bad swings in a row, you\u2019re gonna struggle. And so I think I see a lot of people being really mature on that.<\/p>\n<p>It is scary, right? Like how do you tell that story of the gap? Um, and definitely fractional is a thing I just posted yesterday on like. Fractional used to just be like the high-end people that would do it. And everyone else had full-time jobs now, like everybody\u2019s fractional because they can\u2019t find a job and so they put themselves out as fractional.<\/p>\n<p>And so I think a lot of people are going through that. It\u2019s actually Neil Weitzman it, uh, with GTMfund and I have collaborated a lot on like, how do you think about fractional? Should you do it? Should you not? We\u2019ve written a whole series on like the pros and the cons of fractional. I think a lot of people try it, don\u2019t work for them.<\/p>\n<p>Uh, and so people are trying to figure out like, what do I do between roles? Uh, that\u2019s the next thing that whisper\u2019s [00:11:00] working on. Like how can we, for our members make that even even easier to explain those things as well too. So I think a lot of people are going through, I don\u2019t wanna make another mistake in my career.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s also where Whisper\u2019s Confidential Company Insights database is massively helpful, right? Because you can learn the behind the scenes whispers on companies and avoid going to the toxic ones or. Spot, those ones that have just done an amazing deal with Snowflake and are about to triple in revenue and a, a lot of it I say is like it\u2019s picking the right companies.<\/p>\n<p>you could be the best operator in the world, but if you pick the wrong company, you\u2019re kind of screwed<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> A hundred percent. I mean, that\u2019s part of the, the hypothesis behind GTMfund is you could have two incredible CROs. One goes to Salesforce, one goes to a startup that doesn\u2019t materialize in the end, and they have very different outcomes. Is it a reflection of their personal ability? No, not necessarily.<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes it is that luck of the draw, so it\u2019s really helping to educate people, which you are doing fantastically. Around how to pick the right companies, and then providing those opportunities [00:12:00] for diversification beyond their immediate, which is what we\u2019re working on. So a natural pairing there. yeah,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Back four unicorns. He done great stuff, but. I graduated in oh one, there were no jobs. I had no job for six months, and so I got burned early. And then I ended up working for a wealthy family who built movie theaters. And at some point I\u2019m like, I need to get into tech, right? So like three times in my career I\u2019ve had to like articulate what I\u2019m looking for, go get those jobs, and I\u2019ve been able to get at those were Upwork. Box and, uh, Carta, right? Like where I\u2019m like, I was lost in the woods with a background that made no sense and I was able to talk in, in oh one and in oh eight, and in like 2015, which was an interesting time, and I was able to talk my way in to pretty powerful companies by being incredibly articulate, working the venture networks, working, all these other things.<\/p>\n<p>So a lot of what Whisper\u2019s done is also built like a hundred articles on. All of those [00:13:00] tactics, which most people don\u2019t understand and they struggle with a lot.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> That is incredibly valuable. And maybe for someone who\u2019s popping their head up after three to four years in a role, maybe they\u2019re in transition or they\u2019re looking to transition, what is that step one that you\u2019d advise them on?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> we have a fun exercise if you wanna include it for the podcast, um, I can send you the link, but it\u2019s kinda like a. Google Doc template where it\u2019s like articulate your focus. If you can\u2019t articulate your focus, whispered will not work with you and for you. Um, it\u2019s, uh, we don\u2019t do that. And so I think so many people are like, Hey, Sophie, good to see you.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m interested in like cool roles, what do you know? And that\u2019s gonna be, if you talk to a recruiter like that, they will never call you again. they probably won\u2019t ever call you anyway, and so instead if you show up being like, Hey Sophie, great to see you. Like this is what I\u2019ve done. These are the types of things I do.<\/p>\n<p>This is the type of role I\u2019m looking at, and here\u2019s like four or five target companies. people will remember you, people will follow up with you, people will help you. And so we\u2019ve built tons of free content for people to be able to articulate that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong>[00:14:00] That\u2019s incredible. Super helpful, and I know speaking from firsthand experience, that is definitely what is most helpful, memorable, it\u2019s easier to pull on. It\u2019s when people are very specific.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> We score people, with AI on like how clear are they in their LinkedIn and how well are they position themselves? I think a lot of other people use LinkedIn as like, here\u2019s all the things I\u2019ve done, we\u2019ve written a whole Bible on like every best practice around LinkedIn, but LinkedIn should tell a singular story.<\/p>\n<p>You have 10 to 15 seconds Why somebody scans that LinkedIn and if they can\u2019t be like. Wow. I know this woman is an amazing marketer that\u2019s done this, this, and this here and here. But if they\u2019re like, oh, I\u2019ve done this. And then I\u2019ve got like, I\u2019m on the volunteer for the pet club and I\u2019ve got Pavilion on there and I\u2019ve got, uh, you know, operator\u2019s Guild.<\/p>\n<p>And I\u2019m like, okay, but what do you actually do? Right? And it\u2019s like, I think that\u2019s where people feel like they need to put way too many experiences on there. And you know, it\u2019s like, I currently don\u2019t even have GTM fund on my LinkedIn. Even though I\u2019m massively proud of it and it\u2019s one of the [00:15:00] best node networks I have, but if I do that, then CultureAmp and Box drop off the list and I need to tell a story that I am a strong GTM operator.<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019ve tucked those things in and those are things that people just don\u2019t think about. And I would say 80 to 90% of people need massive help with their LinkedIns. We give away the article for free and some people can use it and get better and other people probably need to go pay for a coach. we don\u2019t do the coaching, but we\u2019ll, we\u2019ll give people a three to five minute loom with some quick feedback on it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> I love it. Articulate your focus both directly and on LinkedIn. What are, can the next steps, almost if we take it sequentially, that Go-To-Market leaders should consider.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> articulate your focus. we kind of call it like your focus statement. so the focus statement includes things like, what\u2019s the role I want? what segments do I want? what size company do I want? We\u2019ve now got a fun article on if you show up and you say, Hey, I wanna be a CMO at a seed company.<\/p>\n<p>I wanna be like, that role doesn\u2019t really exist. If a company\u2019s hiring for A CMO at [00:16:00] seed, they don\u2019t know what A CMO is and they shouldn\u2019t be hiring for that. So we help, you know, like really getting clear on things like that. Um, sectors focused geo, all of those things. So that\u2019s Skype the focus statement.<\/p>\n<p>The next, I think most powerful thing, assuming you\u2019re not like joining whispered, which will accelerate a lot of this stuff, is list of target companies, right? Like, literally when I talk to people and they\u2019re like, Hey, I\u2019m interested in these five companies. I know people at all of them.<\/p>\n<p>Um, I talked to a guy the other day, he\u2019s like, Hey, I\u2019m talking to this company. And I said, great. I\u2019m talking to the CEO in two days, or we can help with this. And so a lot of whispers about how do you accelerate that. So if you can\u2019t articulate those companies and you\u2019re just like, I\u2019d like an interesting role, what do you know that\u2019s hard to help?<\/p>\n<p>So Whisper\u2019s built a company database. We have 7,000 companies in there. we figure when you leave your job. You don\u2019t have ZoomInfo and you don\u2019t have LinkedIn Sales Nav. And so how do you pick that list of companies? And so we\u2019ve done that for you. Um, that, uh, you can go into that company database and filter by description, geo tags on breakout companies, investors, all [00:17:00] of that stuff.<\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s all there and it\u2019s all free for people. Uh, and so if you can come up with that, like 20 to 30. Company list and then you\u2019re like, Hey, Sophie, great to meet you. I do rev ops, I do it here, here and here. You know, I\u2019m really interested in high velocity, low a CV companies examples would be like Zapier and this and that.<\/p>\n<p>And so I did that with somebody when I was searching for my last role and someone\u2019s like, oh, I totally know Wade, the CEO of Zapier, right? So I met Wade and I met his CRO, right? I didn\u2019t end up going to Zapier, but like being able to articulate what you\u2019re interested in, people can help you so much easier.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> It may sound obvious, but I will tell you it is, it is not common practice,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> No, you probably talk to a lot of these people all the time. Yeah. You and you and Paul and Max are like, Hey, can you help me with my search? And you\u2019re like, I want to, but can you do the work first?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Definitely, and I mean, we\u2019d, love to do the work that just makes it easier for, for us to be able to actually facilitate those connections because otherwise we\u2019re doing the mapping and it may not be entirely correct what they\u2019re looking for. I think it, I don\u2019t know what, what your pulse is. Is it [00:18:00] that people aren\u2019t aware what they\u2019re looking for next?<\/p>\n<p>Or is it that perhaps the education around doing the work upfront is still growing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I have a fun article we wrote on, we call it ambiguous roles. so COO, chief of Staff, operating Partner, business Development, these are all roles where people don\u2019t actually want to pick a role. and I think if you\u2019re in those roles or, BizOps or strategy, like those roles are gonna be tough to build careers on.<\/p>\n<p>you know, I. Guilty of it, right? Like good schools, MBA, want everything to be possible. Those types of roles are great in your twenties \u2019cause you\u2019re gonna see a lot. But if you\u2019re in your thirties and you\u2019re starting to get to VP and you\u2019re still playing with those roles, they\u2019re tough.<\/p>\n<p>I, I talk to people and who have those types of backgrounds. And I\u2019m like, oh, how about a COO role? They\u2019re like, that\u2019d be amazing. I was like, welcome to a custom job search for the rest of your life. Um, because every COO role is different. And then if people are like, okay, okay, okay, I get that. Then I\u2019ll just test them and I\u2019ll say, how about operating partner to bc?<\/p>\n<p>Oh, I love that role. [00:19:00] Right? And I\u2019m like, okay, here\u2019s our article on this. But it\u2019s also an ambiguous role. It\u2019s different at every place. And so we really focus on. Sales, cs, rev ops, um, marketing, senior leadership positions where people have clarity. And so you asked me like, do people have clarity now? I think there\u2019s a group of people that are just like, they just, no, no one\u2019s ever banged them over the head and been like, get specific.<\/p>\n<p>if everything\u2019s possible, you\u2019re not gonna get anything. I had this one story one time I met this person. I said, well, cool. What are you interested in? How can I help? And they\u2019re like, oh, you know, some interesting operating roles. I\u2019m really good. And we went through like four versions.<\/p>\n<p>I was finally like, I\u2019m gonna walk away unless you can tell me what you\u2019re interested in. They\u2019re like, oh, mixed martial arts and film. And I\u2019m like, okay, cool. I know the CEO tap out films. Do you wanna meet that person? Right? Like when you get specific people can help you. Um, I think people are also massively afraid of closing off boundaries.<\/p>\n<p>Um, but there\u2019s, you know, it\u2019s like. The more specific you are. The second you think about that, you\u2019re like, okay, films tap up. But like, [00:20:00] do you also like the NFL, right? Or do you, so people can extrapolate but they can\u2019t take generic and go down. And so like we have a whole article on like the value of niching down and being clear in your niche as well too.<\/p>\n<p>And so I\u2019d say a lot of people have not done that work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Interesting. That makes sense. And let\u2019s say people do the work. They do the work, they get specific, they\u2019ve got their list of target companies. How do they actually go about engaging their networks?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> lots of ways there. I mean, the first is once you have that, you can go out to people and you\u2019d be like, Hey, here\u2019s how I\u2019m thinking about approaching my search. here\u2019s the list of companies. Like do you know any, if you can put in front of people that list of companies, people can go through the list.<\/p>\n<p>Like, no, I know nobody here, or, yes, I do. Right? And so that\u2019s so much more helpful than like, Hey, nice to meet you. I\u2019m looking for roles kind of like this. Do you know anything? that would be one. I think regular updates to your network are powerful. but you know, there are times when if you are an operator and you\u2019re a good operator, you\u2019ve been heads down in your company and your network is stale, right? And so that\u2019s one of the reasons [00:21:00] we see this job search is so scary, right? Like it\u2019s like cool, you pop your head up, you\u2019re like, I have been CRO at this company for a while.<\/p>\n<p>The pyramids narrower, narrow is you get more seniors, there\u2019s less and less jobs. Those jobs are unposted, you don\u2019t know what those are. And so you could spend five or six months networking to find all those jobs. And maybe find like 20% of them. Or you could plug into Whisper and see the entire flow and plug into a bigger network than your own.<\/p>\n<p>And so that\u2019s kind of how we look at it. So for me, I kind of built the model that I wanted myself. Right. Which was I wanted, I knew I was good, but I needed help when I popped my head up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> definitely. And venture networks are part of that. Obviously, you know, we could chat for hours about this from different angles, and you\u2019ve engaged across multiple venture networks, so I\u2019m curious what your advice is to operators for engaging venture networks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Yeah. First obviously be clear. don\u2019t show up and, and do that. second is like, do your homework. so whispered can help. Our company database has all of the venture networks portfolios mapped, right? And so we map \u2019em by like headcount growth. [00:22:00] But you should know before you go into talk to a venture talent team.<\/p>\n<p>Like, which are the five to seven companies in their portfolio that are interesting? That can take four or five hours. If you go to talk to Andreessen, that can take four or five days, right? Like it\u2019s, uh, and so we\u2019ve kind of done that work for you, but. You know, and then we, there\u2019s good questions to ask when you engage people, right?<\/p>\n<p>Like, and so we, I, I\u2019ll share the article we wrote on like how to work and leverage talent teams. They\u2019re amazingly helpful, but they\u2019re also swamped. Um, they don\u2019t have a lot of time and so you probably get one crack at it. I know one venture team\u2019s philosophy is if we think you\u2019re really good. We wanna have another touchpoint with you in 30 to 45 days, they\u2019re gonna make sure they invite you to help a portfolio, CEO or come to a dinner or do something like that.<\/p>\n<p>And so I think a lot of, I mean, we all talk to these people and we think we have great convos but they, they\u2019re not gonna remember you in most cases for most things. And so lot of it is being really crisp and clear in what you\u2019re focused on and then if you have a specific ask, it\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve kind of got a list of like. [00:23:00] Things to ask them and how to help. cause everyone will always ask. Cool, great. Like, don\u2019t have a role for you. Any other ways I can help? And most people are like, uh, no, I\u2019d love to hear if you know any roles, that\u2019s never gonna happen. I mean, it\u2019ll happen in the small case, but I think it\u2019s hard to stay in touch with those.<\/p>\n<p>So, you know, I, we tend to guide executives on how to go in, how to talk to them, how to deal in with, like, going with specific roles. another tactic we\u2019ve seen that works really well is. Since we know all the venture teams, if a one of our executives finds a role, we\u2019ll reach out to the venture team on their behalf being like, Hey, we are aware of a role in your portfolio.<\/p>\n<p>You may or may not know about it. Oftentimes they don\u2019t happy to make an introduction to the executive, and then you can have a conversation with \u2019em about the role and you can learn more about the role. So that\u2019s like an amazing way to connect with people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> I think you made a, a great point of it is different. It can take different time periods for different firms. Every single firm, just like the COO role has a different process for us. Our process, for example, is, and again, every firm is different, but just transparently it we have a [00:24:00] job board, so all of our portfolio companies are posted to that job board.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of them. Those are again, the posted roles for Unposted roles they\u2019re on whispered, or they\u2019re in our Slack community and we\u2019re going back and forth on them. So those are the publicly available ones and we encourage everyone to take a look at it, flag any roles that are of interest because again, it\u2019s hard for us to do that proactively.<\/p>\n<p>At that scale, we do it proactively, but typically it\u2019s one-to-one with the founding teams as opposed to monitoring the job board. So it is helpful when people come to us with specific asks around that. And then we have a candidate database, so we do have a candidate database we go through, but of course, you know, the most memorable, notable.<\/p>\n<p>People to bring forth top of mind are the ones that are coming in with specific asks that are proving out, you know, what they\u2019ve done at other firms. They\u2019re memorable in that regard. Oftentimes they\u2019re endorsed by folks in the community, so they\u2019ll come through recommendations or they\u2019re easy to back channel, and that way we can [00:25:00] verify, um, any kind of experience before putting forward any kind of recommendations around candidates.<\/p>\n<p>So network specificity and then. Overall at being proactive and kind of doing the work for someone is always, always greatly appreciated.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I love the easy to reference. I just wanna shout out one thing and I\u2019d be curious to dive into that. Your point was spot on. All these venture firms have job boards. Those aren\u2019t the real jobs. I, like I, I\u2019ve called enough firms on it now to know that, like the job boards, that they\u2019ll be like, Hey, please definitely monitor this.<\/p>\n<p>They don\u2019t have the actual unposted roles. Because if they have somebody that\u2019s like in seat and moving and changing or this really strategic role that they don\u2019t wanna get overwhelmed with, they worry that those get out. I think that\u2019s where we\u2019ve spent a lot of time with whispered, which is when people give us roles.<\/p>\n<p>They don\u2019t leave us. right. And so that\u2019s insanely powerful. The people trust us with a lot of rules on that side. So yeah, those VC job boards, you gotta take \u2019em with a grain salt that they\u2019re, they\u2019re nice, but they\u2019re not the real rules. Those are just going to the public boards, scraping the public boards, pulling them in for your portcos.<\/p>\n<p>maybe you can add something separately, but it\u2019s not often. but tell me about the [00:26:00] easy to reference. I haven\u2019t heard about that. Concept, but I, it resonates with me. we\u2019re building a piece of that, but I\u2019d be fascinated to hear when you say that, what do you mean? Is that somebody that\u2019s like known to a lot of your network or how do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Easy to reference being more around the specificity, so it\u2019s more of the mapping around, you know, founder will approach us with a very specific ask. For example, one role that we\u2019re supporting right now is a founding marketer for a heavy PLG motion. And so when someone comes to us as a marketer and says, you know, I\u2019m looking to get engaged with a startup around a founding marketing role, fantastic.<\/p>\n<p>But what is even helpful, if I were to think about that step further is, here\u2019s what I\u2019ve done around PLG companies. Here\u2019s what I\u2019ve done around SLG companies. Here\u2019s what I\u2019m looking for next. And that way, think of it almost like a matchmaking process where. We can then, as a VC, take that information and easily convey it with greater trust to our founding team.<\/p>\n<p>Otherwise, what we\u2019re doing is we\u2019re back channeling. We\u2019re [00:27:00] manually kind of checking what kind of motions that company went through, how they built the PLG to enterprise kind of motion. And so we\u2019re doing a lot of that manually from our side. Whereas if somebody came in with easily referenceable information, almost bites and nuggets, we can easily capture that initially.<\/p>\n<p>And it, just takes the heavy lifting, takes the time commitment out of the back channeling process.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> That\u2019s cool. That makes a ton of sense. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Andy, you mentioned previously fractional. And a lot of people are between roles going fractional. I\u2019m curious what your thoughts are around team compositions overall. There\u2019s a lot of talk right now around what the future of teams look like if they\u2019re more efficient as their people are AI enabled.<\/p>\n<p>What are you anticipating with AI coming in around overall team compositions?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> There was a really great podcast last week. By the HR Heretics folks around fractional. I think fractional is useful when you don\u2019t have the skill, but as you get to be bigger and bigger companies, which I\u2019ve generally been at bigger companies or really really small companies, I don\u2019t [00:28:00] feel like it\u2019s as useful at bigger companies, right?<\/p>\n<p>Like, I just want that skill set in house and I want somebody really fully thinking about us and doing all that. AI is fundamentally changing everything, but I heard somebody say the other day, and I deeply believe that like we\u2019re in the flashlight and fart app era still of ai, right? Like people are, it\u2019s the same stuff over and over again, and there\u2019s gonna be like technology unlocks that are gonna, it\u2019s similar to the way, you know, Uber couldn\u2019t have existed.<\/p>\n<p>In 1997 or even 2001, right? It took the internet to be widely adopted. It took bandwidth speeds, it took the mobile phone, the iPhone, and then the app store, and then like geolocation all to unlock that, right? So I think AI is gonna change the world. It\u2019s just, we gotta realize it\u2019s gonna take time to do.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s amazing. I get introduced to a founder a day literally, of like, Hey, can you talk to this founder they\u2019re building with AI on top of Gong Data and GTM data, and [00:29:00] like, they think it\u2019s really cool. I\u2019m like, no, it\u2019s not like, the fact that they can do it in two weeks means that every other founder can do it in two weeks.<\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s just like, there\u2019s a lot of the same stuff. And so very rarely do I see anything. I\u2019m like, whoa, that is like differentiated and unique versus like for me at bigger companies, you just wait three to four months until like that new tech\u2019s gonna come. I think we are at the very beginning of the changes that are gonna happen with ai.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m super excited about it. I talk to a lot of companies that are gonna drive the change. I don\u2019t think we know how it\u2019s gonna change. Right? Like you couldn\u2019t have imagined that you would just tap your phone and a car would show up. That didn\u2019t have a driver in it. Like you just couldn\u2019t have imagined that.<\/p>\n<p>And so I don\u2019t think we know what AI\u2019s gonna bring yet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> A hundred percent agree.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I will say I think it\u2019s gonna make a lot smaller companies, which will make being very thoughtful about your career. More and more important. whispered, we just don\u2019t have employees. Like everything is ai. Like I\u2019m using AI agents [00:30:00] for literally every single thing that I do. And it\u2019s like, if, if I have to hire somebody other than.<\/p>\n<p>My two amazing developers, like I failed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> What\u2019s one example of an agentic workflow you could share with us or an agent in<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Yeah, sure. We use a ton. every time somebody applies to whispered. The agent goes out, scrapes their LinkedIn, looks at like the company, the companies they\u2019ve been at, and the company quality. It says, have these been like series A or Beyond backed and where were they at the right points in the journey to make an impact?<\/p>\n<p>And then we look at the tenure, right? Are they like a lot of like six month roles or are they like long And we make judgements on both of those. We score their function, we write a summary that we can give to any recruiter. that plus like we look at their LinkedIn followers, we looked at everything else and like all of that basically tells me who I should talk to.<\/p>\n<p>that is like, that is just nascent. We also go out every week and scrape all the venture firms, figuring out what new companies they have. Um, we. Pull in, we\u2019re pulling in some really unique data points on [00:31:00] different things. And so those are just a couple of the areas we\u2019re using ai. the one I\u2019m really excited about that I\u2019m just early in building is I built V one of Digital Andy, where you can chat with me about anything on your career.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s totally free. Uh, or it\u2019s free up to 30 conversations a month. People are paying for it and it\u2019s so, it\u2019s so good, but it can get so much better<\/p>\n<p>that, we\u2019re kind of blowing that all up and rebuilding it from scratch as.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> I love it.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s fantastic. Definitely scalable. And what we\u2019re hearing is a lot of folks interested in scaling with smaller teams, bringing on fractional leaders as needed, or contractors as needed to really take it to those next levels. But with that tight core team,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Yeah, I agree. I agree.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> And then building agen workflows around it just like you are.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s fantastic. And if you were to kinda summarize one takeaway to somebody mid search, what\u2019s one thing you\u2019d want them to take away from this conversation?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Call Whisper. Don\u2019t call whisper, go visit whisper.com. there\u2019s tons of free resources. At a minimum. The tactics are [00:32:00] there, free databases, and then if you\u2019re trying it alone and it\u2019s scary, like, we\u2019re here to help. If you\u2019re good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> I love it. And it really is that ecosystem approach through Whisper that you\u2019re building out. What types of roles are you seeing most demand for?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> there\u2019s like the number two sales roles that are really hot right now where you\u2019re trading notes for the top VC talent team around. Can\u2019t find those. So not the CRO, but like the next level down. I\u2019m seeing a demand gen surge again. Rev ops is, popping back up. CROs as well too. CS was quiet, but it\u2019s starting to pick back up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Yeah, we\u2019re definitely seeing that too. A lot on the sales rev ops side right now. Some early Yep. marketing. And it really is pivotal. I mean, from the VC lens, that first hire on the executive side, any subsequent hire is, make or break really for startups. So getting that right hire is incredibly important and I love what you\u2019re doing to enable that<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> and for yourself. And you know, you\u2019ve got an incredible track record of picking the right companies. You touched on it earlier around what you [00:33:00] look for. What are those things? That you would advise other Go-To-Market leaders to look for as they\u2019re evaluating, joining companies?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I love this question. I, I think a lot about it. It\u2019s, it\u2019s one of the reasons we build Whisper. It\u2019s like why people whisper into our company database. So I look at it as one is growth. Like if you aren\u2019t growing. You\u2019re in most of these roles. It\u2019s tough, right? You can\u2019t get more headcount, you can\u2019t experiment.<\/p>\n<p>I remember like when we took CultureAmp from five to 150 million, like everything we threw up against the wall either worked or we grew so fast that it didn\u2019t matter, right? And that\u2019s fun. But when you\u2019re growing at 10%, it\u2019s just hard, right? Like everything has to work and, you\u2019re not gonna get any more resources.<\/p>\n<p>Your departments aren\u2019t gonna grow. You\u2019re probably gonna shrink and get more efficient. And so I advise like. Pick a company at the right stage of growth. I think there\u2019s a, we\u2019ve written a fun article on like breakout companies and why you wanna join them and you wanna join \u2019em at the right time, right?<\/p>\n<p>Like, I joined CultureAmp at 5 million Amazing NPS, market had not been saturated [00:34:00] yet, great leadership team, and now still great leadership team, but the market\u2019s totally saturated. So one of the, my favorite questions to ask is, of the last a hundred customers you added, how many are new to what you do, and how many are switched from competition? If that switch from competition is high, like it\u2019s a pricing negotiating, tam\u2019s maxed out. So I spend a lot of time thinking like, it\u2019s not the name of the company, it\u2019s where the company is in their growth journey that you wanna join. So that\u2019s number one. Number two is CEO. like the culture that comes from the CEO matters a lot.<\/p>\n<p>And so we get a lot of whispers around who are great CEOs who are not, we know where CEOs may. Depart, where they may leave. and then I think funding is the other one too. Like once they\u2019ve raised, they\u2019re gonna open up a bunch of roles. And so if you know where those raises are coming before they happen, like that\u2019s another area where we spend a lot of time fine tuning, whispered on as well too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> And did you know that when you made your picks, you know, the Upworks, the Cartas, were those factors or are these factors and patterns that [00:35:00] you\u2019ve matched in retrospect now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I\u2019d say Upwork was just, I was so fascinated by the model of remote work. I think box, I\u2019d gone and done this startup with virtual assistants and I was like, crap, I gotta like network back in to like get back into this. And I think Box had the most innovative customer success operations team with a great CCO.<\/p>\n<p>And so I was very excited to work with him. CultureAmp it pinged me the role was perfect and then I just dug into the NPS in the top of funnel, right? Like I literally said, give me your HubSpot instance for a day and just let me dig into it. And I was like, oh my God. The number of people that are like filling out forms is just like, we can optimize this for six months.<\/p>\n<p>And we did. Like, we were a 95% inbound for the whole time. Right? So like I got into the data on that one. I think Carta was a slower growth. I probably violated some of my things there. But the COO was just a tremendous individual and, um, really thoughtful around how he designed that. And you know, obviously they have other great leadership that also happens to be in GTMfund, Jeff Perry and, Nicole, who are both like good friends and as well there too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong>[00:36:00] When you\u2019re looking at roles right now, you know what we find is a lot of folks are asking us, should I go startup? Should I go larger? What does that look like from a role perspective? I know you\u2019ve written a great article. I believe it\u2019s on Whisper, just breaking that down around number one.<\/p>\n<p>Number two, at large and small companies love to hear your advice for Go-To-Market operators as they consider the role title at small versus large organizations.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Yeah, you nailed the article I was gonna talk about. I think it\u2019s a really interesting one. it\u2019s not a perfect answer for every person, but I, I see a lot of people that maybe have had like a lot of crappy companies. I\u2019m like, you don\u2019t need to go be head of, you need to go to be number two at a bigger company and get that logo on there and you need to learn what\u2019s like.<\/p>\n<p>What great is how it is. I had talked to a woman the other day and I was like, I don\u2019t think the one versus two is right for you. I think I would go to be a number one. Right? Like, and, and so there\u2019s a lot of thought in that, but I, I generally think of the logo game, right?<\/p>\n<p>Which is like, go to a company, get that logo on the resume. those do matter. Plus like when you\u2019re having a good [00:37:00] company that\u2019s run well, like a box was amazing, like. You learn how leadership is done, how metrics are done, right, how systems are done, right? You get to build this node with great people.<\/p>\n<p>So I see a lot of people are like just small, little shitty companies and like, that\u2019s gonna hurt you at some point. Now on the flip side, like I take this philosophy of if I\u2019ve done one and I\u2019ve gotten a good logo, I can take a risk, I can go swing for it. So like when I left box, I went to CultureAmp, it was 5 million revenue.<\/p>\n<p>No one really heard of it. and that risk paid off and that one went from 5 million to a unicorn. And so. Then I can take another risk and I started something. Right? So I play that game a lot. but generally I\u2019d say there are a lot of people I talk to where I\u2019m like, you really don\u2019t need to do another head of role.<\/p>\n<p>I remember talking to one guy, he\u2019s like, I\u2019m head of rev ops. I\u2019m like, cool. How many people on your team? He\u2019s like, one. I\u2019m like, cool. I\u2019ve never heard of the company. How you doing? He\u2019s like, oh, it\u2019s really hard. I\u2019m like, you should go. And I\u2019ve navigated him to a larger company where he\u2019s flourishing and, and he\u2019ll do two or three years there and then He\u2019ll be able to pretty much name his price at whatever company he wants to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> And knowing that, it\u2019s so interesting [00:38:00] because earlier we talked about being clear and having that clarity around what you\u2019re looking for. A lot of the time what we find is people don\u2019t have that clarity of whether they should be number one or number two, and that\u2019s what creates a lot of that ambiguity when asking.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s like I\u2019m kind of open to either, you know. How do you recommend people like tactically take that evaluation process for themselves?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Most people, uh, apply to whispered and we tell \u2019em. Um, but it\u2019s,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> more story. Join whispered.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> yeah. Yeah. Join, join, whispered. And We\u2019ll, my, my thing is like, I\u2019m not judging you. I\u2019m gonna tell you exactly what I think. Um, and, uh, we sometimes we give really harsh feedback, but it\u2019s like the feedback that they don\u2019t get. From recruiters, you know, everyone\u2019s like, Hey, really nice to meet you.<\/p>\n<p>It was such a great chat. Like, you know, I\u2019ll stay in touch. I\u2019ll let you know if any rules and like most of the times it doesn\u2019t happen, like I\u2019m gonna be brutally honest with people, right? Like, I, I like this. Search is gonna be really hard given where you\u2019re at. Or actually, I think you\u2019re in an amazing position to do this, this, and this.<\/p>\n<p>But like, you should do this. I told a [00:39:00] guy yesterday is like, your picture looks way too mean. or Another person is like, your picture just makes you look older than you actually are, right? And it\u2019s like those things, like nobody else is telling you that stuff. And so I think that\u2019s where we can help people sometimes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> And are you one-on-one consulting? Everybody that joins, how are these conversations coming up?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Uh, great question. very soon, the a i digital, Andy will do more of this. at this point in time, the only people I talk to are people that score high on our AI score. and who apply to pro. you apply to pro, you will get a call with me. but I make sure that you fill out your focus statement first.<\/p>\n<p>Right. And if you aren\u2019t clear, we basically say like, listen, we only work with vp. Level people that are clear on what they\u2019re doing and are givers and helpers and that understand that we\u2019re a paid model, right? So that weeds out enough people. And so I talk with the high scoring people off of that.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll do one call, you know, I wanna make sure they understand what the platform is, and then they get kind of one more just at onboarding just to make sure, like, I understand, but like after that they\u2019re not buying my time. and so yes, I i keeping it high end right now, um, because I think I heard this great [00:40:00] statement, which is the customers you pick.<\/p>\n<p>Is the company you will be. Right? And so if we pick shitty people, recruiters and talent partners won\u2019t think very highly of us. And so like, I really care about that at the beginning.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> A hundred percent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I, I guess maybe there\u2019s another fun article we wrote, which is Polishing candidates. I\u2019m really proud of this. It\u2019s like there\u2019s, there are a people you\u2019re like, cool, you are an candidate.<\/p>\n<p>Um, I saw one of those the other day. I was like, whoa, this guy\u2019s good. Um, there are people where you\u2019re like. B or C, but we love the publishable people, right? Like we can give them that soulful advice. And so we\u2019ve written like what is publishable and what is not publishable, right? Like three or four short experiences in a row with no name companies, I\u2019m really gonna struggle.<\/p>\n<p>And so we, we can\u2019t, we would love to help those people. We help them with the free stuff, but we can\u2019t help them with the paid model.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> What have you found pattern wise? You know, you see a lot of executives come in. What\u2019s the biggest mistake that you see executives make in their search?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> one I\u2019ve advised a bunch of execs recently is stop shooting at everything, which maybe goes back to clarity and [00:41:00] focus, right? Like it\u2019s the, oh crap, I\u2019m out of a job. Let me apply to everything. I think these people are going to get burned out, right?<\/p>\n<p>Like, I have one person who\u2019s. Like in like seven or eight processes right now. And I\u2019ve, I\u2019ve heard about a bunch of \u2019em. I\u2019m like, most of those are ones you\u2019re not gonna want, you\u2019re not gonna take, like why are you spending time? So having the discipline to like not go deep on processes, it\u2019s hard, right?<\/p>\n<p>Like if you have, only if you, if, if you\u2019re, I talked about this, it was like going to sleep on a Friday evening, especially like a holiday weekend with no hope. That\u2019s hard, right? And so I think a lot of people will keep a process alive that they know they shouldn\u2019t do. And so. But because it feels good to be wanted.<\/p>\n<p>And so that\u2019s kind of maybe an example where if we can give you the discipline to be like, no, say no to that one. Right? Like, because there\u2019s a little bit more flow, there\u2019s more support, there\u2019s all that stuff. I think it\u2019s gonna be helpful to a lot of people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Definitely, and we\u2019re seeing people take even more time between roles, whether it\u2019s out of necessity or choice too, because it is [00:42:00] such a pivotal decision to, uh, dedicate years of your career to a specific company and vice versa. So more and more people and taking those steps really intentionally.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> it\u2019s a tough market. I see it. , and it\u2019s hard to stay positive all the time, but I think that\u2019s another, it\u2019s like, it\u2019s scary, it\u2019s lonely, like you don\u2019t have support. Your network has sta Ile. I think another thing too is like, I. You can\u2019t ping your network every week. Right. The beautiful thing about whispered is you can, you can be like, Hey, I need help this week, or I need help this week.<\/p>\n<p>And so like that\u2019s the other thing is like, I think it\u2019s everybody. Also, this is the area where we\u2019re struggling right now, which is everyone loves the idea, but they don\u2019t wanna pay for it. Um, and I\u2019m like, no, you get what you pay for. And so I think a lot of people wanna try it themselves first. Then they end up finding us two to three months after that.<\/p>\n<p>Right. I\u2019m like, oh, this is really hard. I\u2019m like, yeah, I know. It\u2019s, um, so we\u2019re, we\u2019re, we\u2019re spending a lot of time thinking about that. Like, I, we do charge people, um, and it\u2019s not, you know, our, ours is like a thousand upfront and 125 a month, which is [00:43:00] not crazy. But I do find that some people like, oh, I don\u2019t know if I can pay that.<\/p>\n<p>And I\u2019m like, I know it kind of windows some people out. Um, but it\u2019s like, man, you won\u2019t even spend that on your career. It\u2019s, it\u2019s like that\u2019s, that\u2019s surprising to me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Yeah. That amount is, I mean, marginal in comparison to what picking the right company does for your career.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Bingo. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> And Andy, this has been super helpful. Love to finish with two questions always the same. What\u2019s one tactic or strategy that\u2019s working for you or for the companies in this case that you\u2019re advising and serving through Whisper.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I\u2019ve written a like customer advocacy playbook. We ran it a gated, we\u2019re running it again and we\u2019re running it even better now. So a lot of it is. When people express wonderment or excitement about your product, like engage those people when people give you great feedback, like capture that feedback. , obviously we\u2019re doing something new, so social proof matters a lot.<\/p>\n<p>Like we\u2019re two and a half months in and we have like 60 testimonials already, right? Like those are all real and legit and like we\u2019ve been insanely thoughtful [00:44:00] about that, right. Which is we have, if, if you were like, I love it, I\u2019ll be like, cool. Great. Share it here. It comes in and we can, like, you\u2019ll see like all over our website in different places or different testimonials.<\/p>\n<p>Like we\u2019ve built all that technology really early because I realized if you\u2019re doing something new and different, like you need to have people speak to it and, and tie their brands to it. So I\u2019m a big believer in building the power of a brand and the momentum. We built it a gated, you know, every day people still tag gated in like, Hey, I miss it, or I wish I had it.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re doing the same thing with whispered, right? The idea of like. Your next role won\u2019t be posted. It\u2019ll be whispered deeply resonates with a lot of people. So I\u2019m, I am a big fan of brand building in the right circumstances, like naming a company matters. Like if I named it, uh, Andy career LLC, it probably wouldn\u2019t be as good.<\/p>\n<p>And so I, I spent a lot of time just thinking about the power of brand and the power of customer voice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Incredible. And I mean, you ran that playbook super well at gated for anyone familiar. the feedback loops, the overall just advocacy around gated was [00:45:00] unparallel. So I can already see you<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> Yeah, you touched on the other one too. Grok Growth Loops. There are a lot here too. Um, we are, we are, we are turning on some pretty powerful viral growth loops as well on this side as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Amazing. And what is one widely held belief that revenue leaders hold today that you think is bullshit or no longer serving us at least?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> This one was a tough one. Um, I think I. I\u2019m trying to go back and forth on which side of the fence I go on this one, but the email is dead. Thing is interesting. Like I, I guess, I think a lot of people think email\u2019s dead because the results are so bad. Obviously I spent a number of years in it. Um, my belief is it might be dead, but it\u2019s never going away. So I think other people somehow think that like there will be something better than email, but email is a universal id everyone, you can message any person on it. Any person can message any other person. You know, you can. It\u2019s the unique identifier. In most systems it\u2019s, it\u2019s that or [00:46:00] text, but like a lot of people don\u2019t take text inbound and you can\u2019t outbound.<\/p>\n<p>So like I think people should get over this hurdle of like, email is dead. Embrace that it\u2019s never going away and it\u2019s the best of the worst, and it is totally overloaded with spam. I hope somebody other than gata fixes it. We tried really hard. Um, and so, uh, I think people should assume that it\u2019s here for the long term.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s the only way to tap people back in and they\u2019ll to own an audience. And so I will be fascinated when a company figures out if they ever do an alternative way to like own an audience beyond email, but I haven\u2019t found it yet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Likewise. So keep me posted if you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I by Anthony Ada, who I think we all know is like his vision of like audience and how do you own an audience. It\u2019s really hard to find another medium for this stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> It is. And obviously from a channel perspective around overall Go-To-Market. Yes. But I find even on the talent side. It goes a long way just sending an email. I know getting a direct introduction is ideal, but sometimes an email breaks through the noise too, [00:47:00] because a lot of people are trying to go through different channels and just sending a really direct email with clarity around what you\u2019re looking for is actually really powerful too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> I agree. I agree. It is like when you are a hiring manager and you get one of those things, it\u2019s, it\u2019s really powerful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Yeah, definitely. And Andy, where can people find you if they want to connect?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> whisper.com. Um, I\u2019m sure people will try to send me LinkedIn invites. I do not accept blank LinkedIn invites. Um, if you\u2019re a top GTM operator and you wanna send me a nice note with your LinkedIn invite, I\u2019ll absolutely accept. I will still send you to whispered first if you\u2019re looking for your role, because there are tons of free resources.<\/p>\n<p>You get to learn about it, and I\u2019m gonna force you to articulate what you\u2019re focused on versus just hopping on the call and chatting with you about your career.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Perfect. You\u2019re already forcing people and providing a forcing function for creating that clarity on the LinkedIn invite. I love it. Well, we\u2019ll drop whispered into the show notes and for anyone to, from a resource perspective, Andy does an incredible job of. Creating resources around all areas that we\u2019ve talked through, [00:48:00] additional areas.<\/p>\n<p>So definitely encourage everyone to check out whisper.com for resources built out around hiring and, uh, finding your next Go-To-Market role.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Andy Mowat:<\/strong> It was awesome. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sophie Buonassisi:<\/strong> Thank you Andy. Really appreciate the time. Thank you to the listeners for hanging out with us and we\u2019ll see you next week.<\/p>\n<p>The post <a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\/gtm-150-80-of-exec-roles-arent-posted-heres-how-to-land-them-anyway-with-andy-mowat\/\">GTM 150: 80% of Exec Roles Aren\u2019t Posted, Here\u2019s How to Land Them Anyway with Andy Mowat<\/a> appeared first on <a href=\"https:\/\/gtmnow.com\">GTMnow<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The GTM Podcast is available on any major directory, including: Apple Podcasts Spotify YouTube Andy Mowat is the Co-Founder of Whispered, and is responsible for <a href=\"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/2025\/06\/11\/gtm-150-80-of-exec-roles-arent-posted-heres-how-to-land-them-anyway-with-andy-mowat\/\" class=\"read-more-link\">[Read More&#8230;]<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":329,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[18],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-362","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-business"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/362","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=362"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/362\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":363,"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/362\/revisions\/363"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/329"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=362"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=362"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.alaskansawmill.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=362"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}